Thursday, July 20, 2006

Gender defender

One of the things about this life in community is that we’re freed up from some of the mundane everyday activities which necessarily loom large in most people’s lives.

Take shopping for instance. Yesterday evening, my wife and I went shopping. Which, for us, is unheard of and kinda, well, weird.

(For the uninformed, let me explain. Almost all of our weekly necessities are ordered and supplied by our community ‘FDC’ – Food Distribution Centre – which supplies not only food but household goods, toiletries and so on. Even clothes can be bought from the FDC though sometimes they will advise that something ought to be ‘bought out’ if they haven’t got it. So, the hassle of the weekly shop; dangers of endless consumer ‘choice’, dragging us out of simplicity; the likelihood of inequality – all are overturned by the genius of the FDC.)

But last night we needed a couple of clothing items that the FDC couldn’t supply, so after dinner we headed off to a local cluster of stores for some late night garment hunting.

Now, it may be a cliché that women love shopping and men hate it, but I have to say that my wife was curiously excited about the whole idea (‘wow, we’re going shopping together’ – I was appreciating the ‘together’ bit, but ambivalent about the ‘shopping’...) Anyway, my wife got herself a pair of bright summery trousers (in which, I’m bound to say, she looked lovely) and I failed to get anything. The sandals I’d seen in the shop a couple of days ago had gone and there were no others like them, and the pair of trousers I looked at were too thick and... oh, FDC where art thou?

The funny thing was (as I reflect on the difference between the sexes) on the way home there was a programme on Radio 4 in which a panel were debating gender roles. Apparently, breakthroughs in genetic science mean that it may well be possible fairly soon for women to have babies without men being part of the process at all! The ensuing debate turned on whether men serve any useful purpose (now that the provision of sperm appears to be unnecessary) particularly in the family, but, by implication, in any sphere at all.

One strident feminist appeared to take the line that the huwoman race would be better off without men altogether (after all, all they ever do is have wars, oppress the weak and beat women). She reluctantly conceded that some women may chose to have a man in their life (like a pet Chiwawa, it seems) though she quite obviously found such a preference baffling. Pressed on the point, she allowed men to continue to exist as long as they became more like women.

They had a Christian bloke on (unfortunately he was male so unlikely to get anywhere with our feminist friend) who tried to point out that fathers bring certain essential things to their children (sons and daughters) beyond their mere existence and that there were reasons why God had designed the human race male and female and families to include a father and mother. But his piercing common sense and insight were largely ignored.

So what d’ya think? Any point to men? Or are we – or should I say you, female readers – better off without them – er, us?.. oh, you get the point!

Now, I need to ring the FDC about a pair of trousers...


dee-braveheart said...

I do not know if thos will balance things out not that is the aim of this post.
I have had very negative experinces of men in my life from a very early age.
When i had my son at 16yrs old i was convinced that i did not need a man to help me bring up my child. I was convinced that i could teach him how to be a man.
And i held on to that view untill the last few years. I nevr saw the divde and the gaps in my life or the life of my children untill I joined this church and I saw how feminised my sons were and how my children could not cope with having men around That really scared me. But how was I suppose to get ove to my children that they need to balance things out when i was not willing to do that myself I was holding on to the damage.
Well God Has done a work in me THanks God
I can see the need to balance things out Children can not grow up to be balanced with out experinceing fathers or posative role models in their lives.
I see it so clearly in my younger son who has had posative males in his life he is very different to my other sons
I realised that women need men in their lives and those that shout so loudly about not needing a man. They are screaming out HELP I am damaged but do not come any where near coz i have built a brick wall to protect me from showing you my damage

normal said...

Thanks, Dee. Convincing stuff - thanks for sharing it.

DarrenDeliberate said...

Yes Dee, and thank you.

I think you have covered that quite comprehensively, now all we need is a few comments from feminists who will not listen to common sense, LOL (just to get the discussion going).

TJ said...

Oh DD you so make me smile,let me ask you a question..what would you suggest to someone who for whatever reason found themselves alone with kids because the dad basicly couldn't be bothered? would you suggest that they can't bring their kids up as a single parent and needed to get shacked up with a bloke??

On a serious note I do think that kids do need a decent male role model btw

; ) The TJ

helpful said...

well i think that i dont need men and they are just useless and a waste of space but they are needed, in our church noel always talks about men being an important part of the church and i actually agree with this men are as important as women and yes they are weak and myself has been hurt by the male gender but they are the one's who are leading me and you and the church forward. also i have learned some valuable lessens from men (opps i hope you readers can understand this)

Adrian said...

I grew up with out a dad as my dad died when I was 7 and my mum never remarried or lived with anyone else since. Although I wouldn't say the experiance of growing up without a father figure has feminised me (although I may be blind to it if anyone thinks otherwise) but I can say that I feel I have missed out on something special. I still feel bitter about not having a father and what that means I have missed out on. The worst thing is though is that I find it incredibly difficult to relate to God as Father. Its something that has affected my entire walk with God over the last 5 years or so and I really struggle to work it out.

I guess that what I am trying to say is that men and women are both needed for there to be a balance in our lives.

Its no surprise really that we (the human race) want to do this though because by our very nature we want to rebel against God and this one way of doing it by trying to eliminate part of Gods creation and rejecting Gods order because we think we know better or don't need what he has made.

If women have problems with men because of past experience then forgive us - we are a fallen people after all :-)

Sorry if this seems rambling and confused but I hope you can understand what I mean.

DarrenDeliberate said...


I'm glad you placated your your own arguement there by saying 'on a serious note' LOL

I wouldn't say that at all. It is quite posible for a mother to bring up her children without a father. However a positive 'father figure' in their lives be it an uncle or friend would be beneficial.


I'm so glad you consider men to be as important as women within the church (I agree about the worldly useless bit, men are often a let down). That's my fragile ego stroked (and over half the church) I'll go away now and put a shelf up I think, where's that spirit-level I put somewhere.

Beefan said...

i agree adrian. growing up in a place where men are the dominant ones and women have to take a step down convinses u that men are needed. yes i agreee women are fabulous and brilliant and wonderfull and yeah but there are still some things that women cant do without men. for example women need men to make them feel beautifull and other things like this. having a god that is a man.. i think, for me makes me respect men even though some hurt you as they are prob not secure in themselfs. hmm im waffling and im making no sence. in my opion men are very crucial int this world and they have there very own special place in mylife! BRING ON THE MEN!!! (ha ha ha)

TJ said...

Wasn't an argument as such DD, the earlier part of that comment was very tongue in cheek ; )

I do seriously think that kids need a positive male role model as much as a positive female role model in their lives.And I agree that can be just a relative or friend where the biological parent is lacking,want to say something more on that but will have a think.

I know that I need my male friends as they give me a different perspective at times other than I see..same as I can give them a different perspective on things I guess......hope that makes sense

; ) The TJ

HR?I said...

i dont see how any woman with morals can say that they dont need men. yes, they are a let down-some bigger than others(believe me, i know about that), but even if we try and get rid of them, it wouldnt work-having babies without a man yeh but uve still got the chance of having a son. and if you do try and get rid of men and put them down cos theyre useless n have no purpose, isnt that making us as bad as them? werent they the ones who ruled the earth? you really want to be like that?
as much as my bad experiences make me hate guys and struggle with any kind of relationship with them(as friends, father figures etc.), they still have a purpose otherwise God wouldnt have made them

The wife said...

on a slightly less serious point... I'd like to say that the trousers i bought were RED!!! How fantastic! I'm so excited that i got RED trousers!!! AND they were a size down to what i usually get! I feel like their loudness expresses who i am inside - wahooo!!!! ( i now fully expect suitable comments from at least dee and beefan ).

And while i'm raving can i say THAT I WELL LOVE GOD!!!!

HR?I said...

wow you need that energy let loose methinks-go for it!!!

The wife said said...

yeah i can be quite crazy under my 'responsible' veneer...tends to come out when you squirt me with a shower or bring me to London or get me annoyed with satan or excited about jesus....or red trousers!!!!!!

DarrenDeliberate said...

'the wife' The captain's wife,

If I'd known it were that easy I would have put the call in to FDC asking to turn down your order for trousers aaaggess ago, LOL

DarrenDeliberate said...


Instead of sandals you could always buy deck shoes, I have this mental picture of you restaging Paul Nicholas' 'Dancing with the captain' video,.. ships mate wearing red trousers....he he

DarrenDeliberate said...

"Do do do do do do do do
Do do do do do do do
It was full steam ahead

Destination unknown

I asked our position
The crew didn't know
They were all jiggin' up in the riggin'
'Cos the captain loves to rock and roll

I looked out to sea
there was no land in sight
The ship kept on sailin' right into the night
Ev'ryone cheerin' nobody steerin'
But we seemed to be doin' all right

Ev'rybody was dancing with the captain
Ev'rybody was dancing with the captain
Just look at them dancing with the captain
we all had fun the whole night long
And the ship sailed on

Pretty soon the captain was out of control
He said "This here's the plaice if you go the sole"
Keep on cruisin' let's have the music
Your captain loves to rock and roll

Ev'rybody was dancing with the captain"

Anonymous said...

Hi James
Just looked in.
Technology and wealth have freed up women from men in society, and men have made a pig's ear of their role - but God's order is what will always work best. I'm sure you'll agree.
Have some brotherly love.

HR?I said...

lol hmm interesting. like the song darren! wonder if itll come true?

DarrenDeliberate said...

We will have to ask James where grandma's party is.

Anonymous said...

In the begining of earths evolution process according to a recent science question I heard there was no male or female it was only as things evolved that male and female came about purely as a survival mechanism. Not that any of you guys believe in evolution. So if we now only need women to produce without men is that not devolution and how long will the human race survive.

dee-braveheart said...

Red is the most fantastic colour
I saw the trouser other day and they was super
i personally think that colour and clothes say alot about who we are and for women i personally think that it is vital now i know that i may possibly get shouted down by the male species for being shallow But do i look bothered me thinks not coz God made me the way he did and I love clothes incase noone noticed and we were created to ahve colour in our lives

Beefan said...

ok woooo Anna shopping what a fab thing its great i love it and so do u from what it seems! red yeah everyone they are realy nice trousers and Anna ur right its you they say Anna all over them not literly but yes its great!!!


mmm the whole shopping thing threw me abit as I am very defineately female, like being female, happy that blokes are blokes and that they are around BUT CAN'T STAND SHOPPING - least of all for clothes ... though not a naturist at heart if I lived in warmer climes I might be tempted to do the whole pre-fall clothing style just to avoid shopping ... so please ... i think this highlights the whole stereo typing issue of some(if not all) of the feminist debate (and the previous one re flowers actually). MM seem to have lost me way in this a bit - it is the end of another sweltering day tho.
God created male and female - and He hasn't yet proved wrong in what He's done (well mayb spiders???)and he gave them interactive roles - so what's the issue? Probably that fallen humanity has screwed it up again and turned something beautiful and set up for our mutual growth, security, life and love and protection into something of confusion and the pit. Women in the church do well as women when men function strongly and securely as men --- and men in the church do well as men when the women are secure and functioning well as women - the chicken and egg debate was supposedly answered by scientists recently as definately the egg --- I'm on the other side actually if you look at Genesis --- However I think firm scriptural evidence to support the onus being on the blokes to get it right first - which is partly why I enjoy being female!!!!